Double Post, Tonight
Mar. 23rd, 2011 10:48 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
amulyOrders of Business!
1.] Go vote over at ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif){kind=small}
jack_ianto_las . I'm still in it – barely – and I can't vote since I can't read fanfic during lent. So vote in place of me, fabulous readers!
2.] Tattoo. So. You fabulous internet friends of mine. I know you're a talented bunch. Are any of you particularly skilled graphic designers? I'm looking to get a tattoo designed, and I have a sort of rough idea THING of what I want to do, but I =/= art-savvy. I'd be willing to work out a deal w/ you for designing it: fic exchange, LJ v-gift – hell, I'd be willing to buy you a paid account if you can make me something good. So, anyone out there? (And I reserve the right to not like your art if you contact me. I mean, this WOULD be something going permanently on me, so I'm not going to try and save your feelings and getting it if I don't like it, you know? Sorry :{ )
Um.... Yes. Okay, I think that was it. So it wasn't quite as long as the fic itself, but it WAS getting too unwieldy for the author's note.
Anyway, see you in about an hour with Gwil!
Edit:
Just realized, after chatting w/
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif){kind=small}
a_silver_story in the comments, that I need to explain this a little bit more. So:I basically need someone with an artistic brain to combine these three things:
^Principle of Non-Contradiction (PNC)
^Kepler's 3rd Law of Planetary Motion
^An illustration of the method Socrates uses to demonstrate his recollection theory of knowledge as described in the "Meno".
I want to combine these in like, a pretty way. Basically I was thinking solar system model diagram, w/ the "P" equation (that's the PNC) as one of the foci, and then the Meno square (the square, obviously) as the form of the triangle who's area is getting cut out in the Kepler's third law (solar system thingy) diagram.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 03:17 am (UTC)I have a deviantART here: Click Here For My DeviantART (just be wary of my pre-tablet and post-tablet drawings... they get better, I swear)
And I also have two WIPs that I'll share with you:
^^ Click to Enlarge ^^
N/b: Dr. Bob is with tablet, Jack is pre-tablet. So ... erm... yeah.
oh, and Jack's a lot closer to completion than Dr. Bob. But... pleh. I dunno why that's important.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 03:27 am (UTC)But, actually, I was looking for something... erm... easier? ... for someone to work with me with. Like, no portraits or anything like that. I basically need someone with an artistic brain to combine these three things:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/d/e/bde889037eb29d844171c1aa4eeed2b5.png
http://www.mrfizix.com/home/universalgravitation_files/image058.jpg
http://ceemrr.com/Geometry1/ExactValue/Meno1.png
In like, a pretty way. Basically I was thinking solar system model diagram, w/ the "P" equation (that's the PNC) as one of the foci, and then the Meno square (the square, obviously) as the form of the triangle who's area is getting cut out in the Kepler's third law (solar system thingy) diagram.
*breath*
Um...
So, yeah. Do you have any clue how to work with this whole jumble and make it, like, pretty? Because I want it to be pretty ;__;
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 03:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 03:48 am (UTC)I prefer the PNC written as:
~(p&~p)
^Those are two "tilda's" there - the squiggly lines. The p's should be lowercase, and you can use an ampersand, dot, or the little half-triangle shown in the picture as the middle sign.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 04:36 am (UTC)I totally forgot to ask where the tatto was actually going to go, so worked on compacting the design so that it could go pretty much anywhere. I couldn't quite visualise what you were describing, so if you don't like what I've done (which you probably won't - it's only a frist draft) could you describe it a little clearer (and for thick people who work in terms of 'pretty circle' and 'square with a square and two little kisses in it) if you want me to create that. I mean ... I don't even know if your square with kisses in is allowed to be upside down and rotated a bit...
Anyway, I don't mind spending time on all this to get it perfect (otherwise I wouldn't have offered) so be brutally honest, becuase obviously this is a tad permanent.
So yes: hand-drawn rough idea:
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 04:46 am (UTC)Okay, the "Meno" square I actually want as one of the triangles INSIDE the "solar system" - or rather, half of the square forming half of one of the triangles, yeah?
But the thing you did wrong - having the square all on the outside - made me think: graph paper look. So keep the griding - however you want it - in the background. Just line it up so it makes some kind of sense in the end.
PNC thing:
I want it somehow to be the dot that the two "solar system" triangles converge on. Yeah, I have NO CLUE how to make that work/look good. But the whole point of the PNC is that it's the "God" expression in logic, so I want it at the "center" of my whole little universe.
Um...
I have some more stuff about the Meno square I want to tell you, but try doing whatever the hell it is I just described for now, and we can tweak more, later. (Eeee fun! ^.^)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 04:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 04:49 am (UTC)Also: where is the tattoo going, so I can think about positioning and space?
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 04:52 am (UTC)I'm going for my hip. So, it can be... eh, half the size of my fist or so, is what I was thinking? Maybe a full fist? Somewhere around that size (I have relatively small to average sized hands for a girl.)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 04:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 05:04 am (UTC)(just imagine it's black)
EDIT: that should say 'I haven't figured out how to put the equation in YET.' I'm working on it XD
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 05:07 am (UTC)Can't be a circle. Has to be an ellipse.
Sorry. Should have mentioned that at some point :{
The point of the third law is that w/ the elliptical orbit of the planets, they move faster the closer they get to the sun, so the triangles get "fatter". Then when they move away on the ellipse, they move slower, but the triangle is still the same area, just "skinnier".
So nooo! It has to be an ellipse! :P
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 05:12 am (UTC)More like this?
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 05:23 am (UTC)(Sorry!)
The big DOT in the center (focus) can't be in the center.
Ellipse:
(*___*) <- two foci, on either side.
Circle:
(*) <- single center point, in the exact center
And the triangles DO need to differ in SHAPE, but not AREA (I know, this is ridiculous).
So, example:
Area of a triangle: 1/2(b*h)
So you can have a triangle 6x4, so fatter than it is tall, be the same area as a triangle 3x8, taller than it is fat. both of their areas = 12, but they have totally different dimensions. THAT'S how the two triangles need to be in the ellipse: one fat, one skinny, but both with the same area.
And the big dot needs to be off to one side (the fatter triangle needs to be the one closer to the focus, as well, as you can see in the diagram thingy).
I KNOW. IT'S A FUCKING MATH TATTOO. I'm so sorry! DDDDD:
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 05:29 am (UTC)I'll sleep on it and cobble some more ideas together - with an ellipse, two different sized triangles with the same area, a sun, the equation, and the special square with the kisses in it.
And it will look cool.
I actually have some graph paper, so I can properly play around with the square background.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 05:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 05:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-24 06:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 02:15 am (UTC)If you like that concept I can experiment more with that, but I'm going to hang on and wait for your thoughts and sketches before doing more.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 02:23 am (UTC)There's some notes I need to give you on the grid/triangles, but I'll get back to you on that in a bit (big fic writing day for me. Brain a bit mush at the moment :P)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 02:53 am (UTC)Your diamond grid: make it bigger, and encompass the whole "solar system" (marked in RED). Then take the green bit, where the triangles and the x's are, and tilt that so it's on the same plane as the triangles from the solar system.
(hopefully this'll show up):
no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 03:55 am (UTC)Just realized - my bad - that it's impossible to perfectly overlay one of the right triangles from the inner square (two legs labeled "x" triangle) onto the triangle on the solar system, because that triangle CANNOT BE A RIGHT TRIANGLE (physics). So:
Take the triangle with the legs "x,x" Make the "up and down" "x" side of that triangle in line with the farthest left line of the solar system triangle. The "closer" line of...
Okay, hang on: PICTURE TIME!
So green triangle is where I want you to move red triangle to. Corresponding color-cordinated sides, for "ease" of understanding. And bring the square that that red triangle is apart of (not the big grid square, just the small inner square) with it to its new position.
AGHHHH I'M SORRY. I hope this is making sense :{{{{{{{
no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 04:24 am (UTC)Could you maybe attempt to draw it using the shape tools on paint or whatever? Just a couple of squares and the ellipes and markers for the Sun and the planets so that I can make sense of what you're trying to tell me? Or even a pencil sketch and a photo with a webcam XD
I srsly cannot do the whole labelled diagram thing. My brain needs to work with shapes.
What I'm seeing in my head is the solar system as an ellipse-shaped clock, with the sun in the 'upper' area (like a fried egg). If you tell me what time you want the surrounding planets to be at (label them 1-4) then maybe we'll be closer to understanding there.
Then I'll need to know the size of the meno square. Do you want it to fit within the ring of the solar system exactly, or do you want it bigger or smaller? If we call the point at the top now '12 o clock', what time do you want it to be pointing at?
This is an interesting way to discover how differently brains can be wired XD
no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 04:46 am (UTC)I will haul out some markers and draw you step by step what I'm thinking, moving each "layer" that I have in my head one at a time. I'll post sometime tomorrow (don't you live in the UK? WHY ARE YOU STILL AWAKE?!)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 04:54 am (UTC)If you have an IM service or just want to email me, I'm a_silver_story@hotmail.co.uk, or if we're on at the same time again there's always www.typewith.me that allows real-time typing/contributions between multiple participants without having to sign up for anything.
I'll play around with what I *think* you're trying to tell me, and see if I get inspired by anything XD
no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 05:03 am (UTC)Is there some way you could make the PNC's parentheses form the ring of the solar system, instead of forming the grid from the ampersand? Because then everything is like, "encompassed" by the PNC. *snork snork snork*
(You can see why I needed an artist's help: I am sooooo visually illiterate.)
no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 04:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 04:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 05:00 am (UTC)So: step 1 is what we've currently got. step two is expanding the "grid" to cover the whole solar system. Step three is removing that inner square and aligning one of it's triangles with one of the solar system triangles.
:[[[[[[[[ Better? ish? I can't do the 3D thing you're doing, but I like that, so keep it going with the 3D planes and projecting and stuff. I just can't do that.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 05:06 am (UTC)NOW I UNDERSTAND!!!!!
Right, I'll have a play and see how close I can get it.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-25 05:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-03 10:52 pm (UTC)Sorry I took so long - I came to post then saw your suggestion about making the universe the parenthesis and gave it a go. I have papers and papers full of squares and circles, but I've whittled it down to a basic three. I was also thinking about how your skin will stretch and the tattoo will change as time goes on - I dunno if getting all the angles right now will mean that once it's on your skin it will still be correct (but you'll be able to find out when you do the temporary tattoo test, I suppose). Area is obviously a different matter, but we'll deal with it all later. Need to get our shape first! So:
My handwriting is unreadable. The note says: I think I could work more into this idea, but I abandoned it after seeing yoru suggestion of making the solar system in parenthesis.
However, I think the main problem with having the meno and grid as a background is that the design becomes too busy for the area it will occupy.
(just ignore the ampersand on the left - I put that in the wrong place :)
no subject
Date: 2011-04-03 11:03 pm (UTC)My first instinct is I really like the 1st one, with the way the angles of the different planes are going and intersecting.
Now that I see it, I dunno about working ~(P&~P) into the universe thing... it's looking kind of busy, yeah?
Let's try this little adjustment for now (because there's still other stuff with the square I'm going to want you to change, but baby steps :P):
Try writing ~(P*~P) <- except instead of an asterix, write it as just a dot. And make that dot in the center one of the "solar system" dots. Any of them. In fact, if you could do different versions with it coming off of the different dots, that'd be awesome. Because I dunno if it'll be too busy or not, but... Hurm.
Does that make sense? I can do poorly-drawn sharpie pictures again, if need be :P
Edit: and just saw your note said the bottom ones were too busy. So yes, I agree :P
no subject
Date: 2011-04-03 11:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-03 11:19 pm (UTC)