Pray the Gay Away: Chapter 10
Nov. 23rd, 2010 10:37 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
amulyTitle: Pray the Gay Away: Chapter 10
Pairing: Sirius/Remus
Word Count: 2,986
Rating: R
Summary: Remus' parents send him to a Christian camp designed to help him control his “Same Sex Attraction”. Once there, Remus finds himself rooming with the devilishly handsome bad-boy, Sirius Black. Will he give in to temptation? Could the attraction he feels for Sirius be more than physical? Non-Magical 1970s AU
Chapter Summary: We find out what was in that paper bag.
Warnings: intercrural sex, foodplay, blowjobs (barely), some slight groddy sex squick, but only discussed.
A/N: THEY JUST WOULDN'T HAVE SEX. Oh my gosh. I don't know what the fuck the boys were doing during this whole chapter, but it took them forever to get around to the sexy!timez! I apologize on their behalf.
Side note: PLOT will resume next chapter. The boys deserved a break, you know? :P
NB: Dear British readers: it has come to my attention that you are ignorant as to the awesome of s'mores. I offer you a picture, and beg artistic license for what goes on in this chapter :P.
Previous Chapters:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
That night, Remus was squirming with anticipation. They had finished up their last activity for the day, and the counselors were calling for lights out around the cabins, strolling between them for one last check-in. Remus and Sirius were sitting at their desks, studiously bent over their Bibles when the counselor came in. He didn't check on what they were writing, just said goodnight and shut the door. Remus grinned as he tucked away a lewd note Sirius had just passed him.
“Surprise time?”
Sirius' grin was all the answer Remus needed. Touching at his arm, Sirius maneuvered Remus to his bed and had him sit and wait, going so far as to make Remus close his eyes. Remus obeyed, smiling into the kiss Sirius gave him before he vanished, random sounds from around the cabin Remus' only clue that he was still there.
He kept his eyes shut for several minutes, listening to the sounds of the paper bag being rummaged through, then being torn apart. Remus heard Sirius' lighter go once, and he thought he could feel some soft heat coming from the center of the room. There was the crinkling of something that sounded like chocolate wrappers – though Remus couldn't be sure – and some other rustlings from other containers. Finally, Remus felt Sirius touch his arm lightly. “Okay. Open your eyes.”
His eyes flickered immediately to the center of the floor, where there was a soft, flickering light. Sirius had set up a small, portable stove, complete with a tiny, contained campfire and grill. It looked like something garden gnomes might use.
The tearing he had heard earlier was the paper bag, which Sirius had torn up and tacked over the window. Sirius saw Remus looking at it and winked. “So no curious counselors will interrupt us because they thought there was a fire.”
But the absolute best, best part of the whole thing was what was carefully laid out next to the campfire, in neat little piles. “S'mores?” Remus gasped and dropped down to the floor. Sirius joined him, expectantly grinning.
“And it's your favorite type of chocolate.” Sirius proffered the chocolate wrapper to Remus as proof.
Remus found he could do nothing more than clutch the chocolate wrapper to his chest, overwhelmed by the gesture. After the silence stretched on too long, Sirius reached a hesitant hand to him. “Is it... is it alright? I thought...”
“Sirius,” Remus breathed. At a loss for words, he reached out and grabbed Sirius' extended hand, drawing the other boy to him. They kissed, Sirius making a pleased little sound in the back of his throat.
“Good, then?” Sirius asked breathlessly. Remus only laughed and nodded back in response. “Want to get sweet and sticky with me then, Remus?”
Laughing again, Remus snogged Sirius once more for good measure – and because he could. Almost reluctantly they pulled apart, Remus glancing down at the careful stacks of marshmallows, graham crackers, and chocolate. “I think this might be the first time in my life I've had difficulty choosing between chocolate and something else.”
Sirius waggled his eyebrows lewdly, scooting away from Remus on the floor and reaching for a stick and a marshmallow. “Well, this time you get to have both. And since I'll keep for another hour, but this fire won't, I vote for chocolate first, me second.”
With a shy smile, Remus held up one of the – many – spare bars of chocolate. “Could we try both?”
Sirius' mouth was already full of half-baked marshmallow, but he still managed a sticky grin. “Mmf!”
Ultimately, Remus decided that the s'mores idea was quite an excellent one, and that he really should have at least one normal s'more before he and Sirius started getting creative with them. Sirius managed to inhale three in the time it took Remus to carefully construct a single one, though Remus largely attributed that to Sirius' impatience when it came to roasting marshmallows. He would hold them in the fire for all of ten seconds before yanking them out and squeezing them between two graham crackers.
Finished with his one s'more and fingers carefully licked clean (which had ended up involving a lot more staring and eyes and heavy breathing than Remus had realized it would incite at first), Remus tugged at one of the spare bars of chocolate. Gingerly it held it over the small fire, careful to melt one end and not the other. When half the bar was satisfactorily melty, he curled one finger at Sirius. “C'mere.”
Sirius was in his lap before he could think twice, staring eagerly at the chocolate clutched gingerly between Remus' fingers. Uncertain what exactly to do – it wasn't like he had ever done this before, after all – Remus took a single chocolate-covered finger and smeared it over Sirius' lips. Sirius – more practiced and willing to take the lead – leaned in and kissed Remus, letting him lap at the melted chocolate and spreading it over twining tongues. Remus moaned happily at the dual sensation. Oh yes. This was an excellent idea. Now he just had to figure out where else he wanted to taste chocolate on Sirius.
“What... where else should I...?”
Sirius, evidently taking this as his cue to end the first part of their date and begin the second, quickly stamped out their fire and tucked the supplies out of the way. Next, he whipped his clothes off, until he was lying spread out and starkers on Remus' bed before Remus even had time to react.
Well, before most of Remus had time to react. One part of Remus was reacting quite rapidly to the sight before him.
“Ung...”
Sirius nodded down at his own chest. “You don't have to do anything you don't want. But I was thinking you could spread the chocolate around? Chest, nipples, stomach, bellybutton...” Remus' entire body flushed as Sirius trailed off. His eyes were following the path Sirius' words were taking him, and he was well-aware of where that led.
One deep, shuddering breath later, and Remus was crawling on top of Sirius on the small camp bed. He took a second to set the half-melted chocolate bar down on Sirius' chest while he quickly shucked his clothes off. Sirius was grinning up at him, hips shifting on their own as the two boys squirmed against each other.
Finally Remus was settled snugly on top of Sirius. He picked up the chocolate bar and began dabbing it on the points Sirius mentioned: his nipples, his navel. Remus took a moment to make little dots of chocolate in a path between the three points. Hesitating, Remus glanced shyly down at Sirius' erection. The chocolate was rapidly cooling, so ultimately it was expediency that forced his hand: Remus quickly traced a line of chocolate up the underside of Sirius' cock, before dabbing lightly at the precome on top. Sirius shuddered and twitched beneath him at the touch, though Remus kept his eyes averted. He was still a bit embarrassed, even in their state of mutual nudity and arousal.
The used candy bar was discarded over the edge of the bed, and Remus absently sucked the chocolate off his fingers as he considered the naked, chocolate-covered boy beneath him. Sirius made a plaintive, whiny noise, nodding at his fingers. “Let me help with that,” he murmured. Remus' eyes widened at Sirius' “seduction voice”, and found himself proffering his fingers without question to Sirius' questing mouth.
The other boy flicked his tongue out first, lapping lightly at the chocolate-covered fingers before growing more insistent, wrapping his tongue around them and sucking them into his mouth. Remus' mouth fell open and a moan escaped as he watched Sirius' cheeks hollow and his red lips purse around his fingers. His tongue was lapping at the fingers in his mouth, leaving no square millimeter of flesh un-laved. Remus' head swam with the attention.
Sirius released Remus' fingers gently, licking and kissing at them even as he allowed them to fall from his mouth. It took Remus a few seconds to remember where he was and what he was supposed to be doing, but then he was kissing Sirius, tasting chocolate on his tongue. Remus turned his mouth from Sirius', focusing on kissing his way down his jaw, neck, and chest. When he reached the first chocolate-covered nipple, it was after only a moment's pondering that Remus bent his head and sucked the little nub into his mouth. Sirius hummed happily, hand going down to tangle in Remus' short brown hair.
Satisfied that the chocolate was gone from one, Remus turned his attention to the other nipple, sucking and licking at that until it was clean. On instinct, Remus finished by scraping his teeth gently over the hardened nub. He was rewarded by a cry from Sirius and his hand tightening in his hair. “'s good, Remus.”
Following the trail he had made for himself in chocolate, Remus dipped his tongue into Sirius' navel. The other boy's stomach contracted and rolled beneath Remus' lips. Fascinated by the response, Remus drew his lips back to observe the movements. Sirius whined and tugged at his hair playfully. “Somewhere you want me to be?”
Sirius shot Remus a lusty look, tugging at his hair again. “If you don't... want...” Sirius' chest was heaving as he tried to reassure Remus.
Although his stomach flipped and squirmed at the thought of doing to Sirius what Sirius had already to him multiple times, Remus steeled himself and leaned down. Hands shaking, Remus placed them on Sirius' thighs to steady himself. His tongue darted out once, twice, before finally flicking against Sirius' shaft on the third try. Above him, Sirius groaned. Remus took this as encouragement to go again, so he pushed his tongue out and licked at the stripe of chocolate he had painted on the underside of Sirius' erection. He could taste Sirius' skin beneath the dark, bitter taste of the chocolate. Sirius' groin smelled musky, and Remus carefully catalogued the differing sensations in his mind.
Growing in confidence – due in large part to Sirius' panting and writing above him – Remus reached a hand up from Sirius' thighs and gripped at the base of his erection. Sirius had done this enough times to him that Remus understood the basics of what to do. With careful precision, Remus lowered his mouth over the head and moved down.
“Remus,” Sirius hissed, tugging at Remus' hair. He glanced up, frowning. “Cover your teeth. Like this.” Sirius demonstrated, lips going to cover his teeth in imitation of an old man.
Remus pulled away and blushed. “Sorry, I'm... sorry. Never done this before...”
Sirius' hand was cool on his cheek as he brushed at the flushed cheekbone there. “It's alright. I know. Honestly,” Sirius hauled himself up onto his elbows so he could look down at Remus, “I like that you haven't done a lot of stuff, 'cause I get to be all sorts of firsts for you.”
Remus swore his face grew even more red, and he glanced down, only to be confronted by the sight of Sirius' throbbing, veiny penis. Okay, so not the place to look. He shifted his eyes to the blanket they were lying on. “Is... was something like that in the bag. Um...” he glanced back up at Sirius before looking away again. “Lube?” he finally managed to whisper.
Sirius laughed and tugged at Remus' shoulder, pulling him up his body. Remus went willingly, smiling as their bodies fit together so easily. He had begun rethinking his biological argument against homosexuality: his and Sirius' bodies always slid together so perfectly, that there was no way nature never intended for this to happen. She certainly hadn't tried very hard to stop them.
“No lube. I figured you wouldn't want to, yet.” He tossed a thumb over his shoulder jokingly. “Though if you do, I'll go get James right now: run the whole way there and back.”
Remus shook his head, laughing. Sirius always knew how to make him feel better: more at ease. “No. I'm... well, nervous. You know.” He frowned, hand unconsciously stroking at Sirius' thigh. “I heard it hurts. A lot. And there was tearing and blood. But I don't know what's true and what's, you know: camp counselors.”
Face gone serious, the other boy nodded. “It can. If you're rough 'n don't care about the other guy. And if you don't use lube.” Craning his neck, Sirius placed little kisses to Remus' shoulder and collar bone. “But I'd never hurt you. The first time, we'll just take it nice and slow. So long as I stretch you out, you stay relaxed, and I use a lot of lube, it'll be okay.” Sirius nuzzled his nose against Remus' chest, licking a playful stripe across the smooth skin. “And I'll make sure you love every minute of it.”
They kissed, and Remus relaxed into it, forgetting about his inadequacies at blowjobs and nervousness over penetration. He laughed when he felt Sirius' sticky penis slide over his, glancing down between them to see the chocolate smearing across their thighs and groins. Sirius glanced down with him, wrinkling his nose at the sight. “Give it a few months, and you'll be as grossed out as I am at the way that looks.”
Pondering what he meant, Remus stared down at his groin as Sirius wet a t-shirt of his and proceeded to clean them off. He supposed the chocolate smeared around sort of looked like... and he or Sirius would be shoving his cock up... “Ew! Does that happen?!”
Sirius shrugged, tossing the used t-shirt away over his shoulder. “Sometimes, a little bit. If you're careful...” Sirius stopped upon meeting Remus' horrified gaze. “Can we talk about the specifics of it all when we actually get around to it?”
Remus nodded, but mentally he was revising his biological arguments. Nature: 1, him and Sirius: 1. That bitch.
Sirius' mouth sucking at his collarbone successfully distracted Remus from his mental tally, and soon their hips were sliding smoothly together, getting sticky with precome rather than chocolate. Nudging at Remus' chin, Sirius looked up at him with big eyes. “Turn on your side?”
Remus didn't even ask. He trusted Sirius.
Once on his side, Remus heard Sirius spit into his palm and felt his fist bumping against Remus' leg as he stroked at his cock. Then Sirius was gently nudging the head of his erection against Remus' thighs, begging entrance. After a moment of awkwardness, Remus figured out how to spread his thighs enough for Sirius to slide in, then squeeze them tightly enough for Sirius enjoy the friction it caused.
“This is the Greek method,” Sirius murmured against Remus' neck. His lips pressed little kisses to the short hairs there between sentences. “This way, it's almost like we're doing it, but we can do this without lube and you won't get hurt.”
Remus grunted his satisfaction as Sirius slipped a hand over his hip and began stroking him in time with his thrusts. Feeling Sirius' erection between his thighs was arousing – exciting, even. It felt like Sirius was so close to having sex with him without taking that final step. Remus whimpered as he thrust into Sirius' tight fist. It felt good. Really good.
Sirius' thrust grew harder and faster, hand tugging in a stuttering rhythm along with them. Remus' body jerked with every thrust, and he shuddered. He could imagine this might be how it would be like to have sex, real sex, with Sirius: thrusting, and grunting, and trembling bodies spiraling closer and closer toward... Behind him, Sirius made a strangled little choked-off sound, before Remus felt him stiffen and warm come spread between his thighs. A moment later, Sirius' hand reached down to dip into the sticky liquid, before wrapping it around Remus' cock and continuing pumping it. With the added slick, Remus came a few seconds later, stars bursting behind his eyes as he curled around Sirius' arm.
As he came down, Remus shifted and turned until he was hugging Sirius tightly to his chest. Remus felt sleepy and satisfied, and wanted nothing more than to fall asleep in Sirius' arms. Then they shifted on the bed into a more comfortable position, and Remus found his thigh pressed down onto a wet spot on the sheets. “Ew.” Remus twisted and looked down between them, wrinkling his nose. “Wet spot.”
Sirius was even more boneless than he was, long arms and legs draped around him. “Nnf.”
“Sirius, come on. I don't want to sleep on the wet spot.”
“S'moof.”
Remus blinked, before coming to the understanding that Sirius meant “So move”. At least, so Remus could only assume. “No, Sirius, come on: the bed's too small. And this is gross. I don't want to sleep on top of your come.”
Remus was fairly certain the next sound out of Sirius' mouth was a snore.
“Oh, for...” With a sigh, Remus hauled Sirius into his lap and slid slowly off the bed, carrying him the one step it took to cross the room to Sirius' (relatively) fresh, clean bed. In his arms, Sirius made a sound that sounded suspiciously like a giggle. Remus glared down at him before tossing him onto his bed. Sirius resolutely kept his eyes closed, moving only to curl himself around Remus when he crawled into bed beside Sirius. Dry and satisfied, Remus barely had time to pull the covers up before he fell asleep, head nestled in the crook of Sirius' shoulder.
Continue onto Chapter 11.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-11-23 04:26 pm (UTC)Oh Sirius you're so mean making Remus carry you =P lol
Can't wait for the next chapter!
Also:
Sirius' mouth was already full of half-baked mushroom, but he still managed a sticky grin. “Mmf!”
Marshmallow?
no subject
Date: 2010-11-23 06:38 pm (UTC)And yes, Sirius is a sleepy post-coital lover. But it just makes him even cuter ^.^
no subject
Date: 2010-11-23 07:38 pm (UTC)Erm...I feel like such an ogre for even mentioning it, because this story is lovely, but the Brits have no concept of s'mores. I was shocked by this when I lived there and I tried to educate them, but they don't even have the proper materials. No graham crackers. Weird pink marsmallows. And you would almost have to use fancy chocolate because no standard British chocolate bar is as thin as a Hershey bar. Insane, no?
no subject
Date: 2010-11-23 07:40 pm (UTC)Ungk, we'll just chalk this up to Remus and Sirius having seen lots of American TV. Or something. And James has magical abilities to get the supplies they need. Artistic license!! Hahaha
no subject
Date: 2010-11-23 07:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-23 08:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-23 10:28 pm (UTC)Great chapter! Very sexy. I wasn't expecting there to be smores in that bag, so that was a pleasant surprise. Who knew Sirius could be so sexy and cute at the same time. :)
no subject
Date: 2010-11-23 11:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 12:20 am (UTC)However, it's obvious and unfortunate that you didn't take any time to do research.
The first ex-gay ministry was formed in 1973, called 'Love in Action' in California. Later they became Exodus International and has 120 ministries the U.S. and Canada. If this was an America-based AU, this would fit your time line. (There's also a Dutch ex-gay group founded in '75.)
The UK has two groups, one a Muslim organisation, and one set up in the 90s. There is also CORE Issues, which is for adults who "voluntarily seek change in sexual preference and expression" and True Freedom Trust which is a "confidential support and teaching ministry". Basically, nowhere you can 'fix' your gay child. It is worth noting that none of these were established in the 1970s.
I'd also like to point out the fact that in the UK, we don't really have summer camps. Any summer camps set up, will have likely been due to American influence - influence which did not become prevalent until later on in the 20th century. A few organisations, such as Scouts, or the Boys'/Girls' Brigade do hold summer activities but not on the scale with which America does.
One might also suggest, that a slightly more even-handed approach to the people who run the camps: they're not evil. They're very sad, self loathing people, whose feelings and opinions are just as valid as yours are and who've been brainwashed by society and their own self hatred. I know what they do is very sad, and you know what they do is sad. I don't need to be sledge-hammered by the message.
I suggest you take some time to research ex-gay camps, rather than use South Park and Eastenders (see: Muslim organisation) as your reference points. I wouldn't watch a few episodes of Miami Vice and think "Right, I know exactly how the American policing system works now". "Oh, House MD? I'll go cure some sick people". You say you've done research. Watching TV is not research. You obviously have the internet; you have a wealth of knowledge open to you.
Now - you need a Britpicker, and you need one badly (and a beta too, frankly - the tone of this is whip-lashing from gay camp is serious business to lololol look at these gays and back again). Britain's attitude to religion is hard to explain, but on the whole, zealots aren't common. The 'bible belt' of America does not have a British equivalent.
Yes, homosexuality wasn't widely accepted in the 70s, but rather than being carted off to pray, they'd be teased a bit by their friends, or at the worst beaten up (even killed, yes) by homophobes. Really, us Brits are a bit wary of confrontation. We don't go to people 'you poof, I'm going to ship you off'. No. It's just hush-hushed. A good example of this is the character Geoff in the play 'A Taste Of Honey' and the film of the same name.
Using American TV as an excuse for s'mores? No. In the 1970s, there was little-to-none in the way of US imports on British TV. They would probably have been watching The Good Life, or Dad's Army.
Kilometres/Miles: We didn't finish converting to the metric system till 1979/1980. Remus WOULD have used the measurement of miles. We still use miles when discussing long distances. The UK generally still uses the imperial system, even if we officially use metric. Anyone of Remus' generation would be able to show you an inch, not a centimetre.
Also: if this is set in Britain, where's the tea?!
The level of disregard for accuracy you are showing would not be tolerated in any other setting. Just because the culture in the UK and the US are similar, does not mean you can just assume things are exactly the same. If you were writing a story set in say... China, I hope you would not blindly wander into it, without having done any research on the culture at all. If you DO want to write an AU dealing with religion-based homophobia in the UK, read Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit. In one scene the main character, a young Christian lesbian, is exorcised and starved to save her from 'her demons'. Not sent away to have a fun summer.
TL;DR
This fic would work well as a 1970s non-magic AMERICAN AU, perhaps even better as a 90s AU with Harry's generation. The cultural inaccuracies/anachronisms are, to say the least, painful.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 05:34 pm (UTC)A few points I would politely contest: I did do research on ex-gay camps for this fic. I read several articles on them, written by men who went undercover and observed the goings-ons. The language that the counselors use, methods they employ, and themes that are constantly discussed are as accurate as I can tell, without ever having been to one of these camps myself. I believe I mention at various points in my author's notes these articles and some of the specific facts I've learned from them - like the fact that SSA is real terminology, and not something that Eastenders just made up. I believe I did draw that distinction between facts gleaned from television, and facts researched.
On the whole, there are some major cultural differences - the lack of summer camps, the timeline of the ex-gay movement, &c. - that I just cannot retrofit the fic to be more accurate as it is. I appreciate everything you've pointed out, and will definitely take the time in the future to consider all of these things.
I can understand being upset by inaccuracies like this: I cannot stand to red a fic that has excessive grammar or punctuation issues. Of course, that's just what I do: don't read them. So if this fic is un-enjoyable to you, then you can not read it: I absolutely understand.
Once again, thanks for taking them time out to point these things out to me and open a discussion about these issues.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-26 04:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-28 08:09 pm (UTC)I live in Britain and I absolutely LOVE this story, so what if there are a few details missed out or whatever..INCASE you haven't noticed both these characters are originally from a story about a magical school in a magical world, did you write to JKR telling her that her story is incorrect?
Part of writing is to just have fun and be creative.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 12:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 05:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 12:29 am (UTC)Anyway, I look forward to next chapter and probably going to read more of your stuff when it's not half past one in the morning ^^"
no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 05:36 pm (UTC)For ease of reading my stuff, there's organized Ficlists over to the side *points left* of my page, in the toolbar. ^.^
no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 01:55 am (UTC)Anyway ... back to story-time.
I loved it, all of it! The s'mores was a great idea, even if it's not a British thing. Still would have loved chocolate lube :) I really liked the tally of nature vs. Sirius and Remus.. hehehe. Thinks I know where that idea came from, maybe? o.O
Sorry for having a national identity
Date: 2010-11-24 02:16 am (UTC)Everything posted in the above comment was fair, and will do nothing but improve this story and the author's writing. I left the comment assuming she would be mature enough to accept constructive criticism.
People like you are the reason you can't say anything constructive without having to hide behind a mask.
Re: Sorry for having a national identity
Date: 2010-11-24 02:54 am (UTC)Even if the story was taken place in Southern American history (which I am quite fond of) I wouldn't have gone so far as to give a history lesson to the things that were inaccurate. I am sure the author of this story has tried her best to be as accurate as possible with this story. I like the story as what it is, at face value, I don't take offense to anyone who places U.S. history differently, certainly when it's an AU story.
I don't mean to make any offense of what I said and I'm sorry you feel that you need to 'hide behind a mask'.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 05:38 pm (UTC)And yeah, ideas come from all sorts of places...
>_>
<_< :P
no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 02:46 am (UTC)And, I'm sorry, but I never really read this with Britain in mind. It just doesn't fit good ol' England somehow (stiff upper lip and all that jazz). So, I'm really sorry if you mentioned location/setting and I missed it somehow, because I always thought this was set in America and took it all in stride. There's nothing wrong with that. It's AU, and you're American. And writers write about what they know. *shrug* I've seen some writers trying to ape a British accent (I might be one of those), and it's painful when they don't really have an idea what they're talking about. One thing I can say for your fic is that it's consistent and tight.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 05:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 04:02 am (UTC)\o/
sirius can be very cute and lovely when he wants! =)
no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 05:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 05:16 am (UTC)More later when I can think straight
no subject
Date: 2010-11-24 05:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-26 04:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-11-26 04:59 am (UTC)Next chapter ended up slightly delayed, thanks to relatives and Thanksgiving and cooking and knitting and Christmas cards and STUUUFFFF, but, all things aligning properly tomorrow, it should be up Friday night EST. *crosses fingers*
So glad you're enjoying it: I love it when "new" people discover stuff I'm working on and join the party, so to speak ^.^
no subject
Date: 2010-12-27 08:07 pm (UTC)I hope you had a nice holiday.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-26 05:53 am (UTC)Eres Geniaaaal!! Espero sigas escribiendoo!! (a little bit of spanish here)
no subject
Date: 2010-11-26 03:25 pm (UTC)I'm glad you like my fic! More coming soon ^.^
no subject
Date: 2010-11-27 01:52 am (UTC)I'm British, and honestly, some of the Americanisms in it are too much to look over. When you said 's'mores' I thought it was a typo. Seriously, I have no concept of that. I have never seen it on American TV, either, so there's no way they would have :3 Idk. I was fine with the rest of it, really, but this was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.
And I come from one of the most religious areas of England, and pretty much nobody says anything to me about being gay. Obviously opinions were a lot different back in the 70s, but my point is, British people just generally don't say anything. We get angry and we're prejudiced but we never, really, do anything about it. Idk, the whole concept just doesn't fit the time or setting.
I understand it's you writing what you know, so to speak, but it's fanfiction and you do have to stick to the nationalities because that's a major part of who the characters are. It's not like you can suddenly write them with Chinese customs but set it in Britain. It doesn't make any sense and quite frankly, I find it a little insulting that you just assume Britain's culture is the same as America's.
And, to be honest, I kind of find your representation of gay people to be a little insulting. Just because they are gay boys on a gay camp does not mean they're going to check out every guy there whenever they do sports and bend over. It's like saying there's a summer camp with both boys and girls and they all just get turned on staring at each other doing sports. It doesn't work like that.
Generally, your Sirius and Remus are really very good, and I love the hurt/comfort aspect you've subtly woven in. It's everybody else on the camp I have a problem with; seriously, I'm tired of seeing fics with ooh! gay guys! they MUST fancy every other guy and want to get into all their pants! because although I know you clearly don't have a problem with homosexuality :') it really doesn't help the stigma.
That being said; I do love this, and I am anxiously waiting for the next chapter :3! I'm sorry if I sounded rude or harsh, I just thought the anonymous reviewer up there ^ was getting unfair, defensive and quite abusive comments for their very valid points. You have to understand I do love this, I really do, it's just that there are certain parts which are a little bit uncomfortable for us Brits to read, because that's just not how we work.
I hope I haven't offended you; I was trying to go for constructive :)
♥!
no subject
Date: 2010-11-27 06:12 am (UTC)As to the specific Brit issues:
First, as an overall thing, I'm going to agree that there's just stuff I don't get right, because I've never lived in - or even visited - Great Britain. As much Brit Lit I read and TV as I watch, some stuff just slips through my writing as distinctly American. Since it is not my goal to be a British author one day, for these things I just kind of shrug and ask my readers to bear with me. The minor stuff (backpack = rucksack, undershirt = vest, &c.) I can fix, but some of the larger things are just a consequence of cultural differences.
However, if you don't mind (and I swear all this is said as politely as possible) I'm going to contest/defend two points:
1.] Representation of gay guys, specifically the sports scenes:
As Sirius pointed out, the boys weren't checking each other out because they were gay - if that were the case, then he would have reacted the same way. It was the repression that was (mainly) causing the roving eyes (that and they're all teenage boys. I mean, gay or straight...come on.). It was kind of a "don't think about elephants" moment: all these boys are in this camp, being told to not think about sex with other boys, so...guess what's going to occupy most of their thoughts.
It certainly wasn't meant to be all "Gay guys want anonymous sex all the time and are major horndogs!" sort of message. It's probably my fault for not making that clearer, and I'll make a note of that in future writing to work on.
2.] The one other point - and this one is spoken/written with a touch of irritation, but you'll see why in a moment - is the assertion that British people never really "do" anything about TEH GAY. It's all "stiff upper lip" and sweeping it under the carpet sort of deal.
The reason that irks me a teeny, tiny, bit is because of what the British government did to Alan Turing. There's a man that broke the Enigma Code, basically winning WWII, invented the thought experiment behind digital information and ushered in the computer age, and also happened to be gay. When the British government found out about this (since it was illegal at the time), they stripped him of his honors, took his government job away from him, and then offered him a choice between chemical castration or work-camp prison. Choosing chemical castration, he ended up committing suicide (or, if you listen to his sister, quietly assassinated) a few years later, due to the drugs screwing up his mind. (Alan Turing is my 1st runner-up for historical husband, which is why I get kind of riled up over this topic.)
Point is, the British government has definitely not always acted positively towards gayness, nor even discreetly. If you want to look farther back at an even more public incidence of this, just check out Oscar Wilde's whole trial debacle thing.
So although I understand the cultural difference to a certain degree, I do still feel that this scenario of parents shipping their kids off to fix them of their gayness is not entirely improbable in England. After all, therapists who treat "SSA" do operate in the UK, so there is some sort of market for it over there, even nowadays.
Anyway, I hope all these response make sense. Basically, I grovel at the feet of you native Brits, b/c I'm an American author and am just doing the best I can with that :/ I am pleased you like my Siri and Remi, however, so yay ^.^
no subject
Date: 2010-11-28 01:37 pm (UTC)She would also like to add that two examples of very old, pre-legalisation examples of British homosexuality, in no way reflect the attitude of homosexuality in Britain in general in the 70s; where your first brit!anon and rohanfox summed up it up quite perfectly.
The odd zealot shipping off a child may be probable, but there being so many a camp would be necessitated is not.
She wishes to state that she was born in 1962, knows exactly what this era was like and begs you not to argue with her because she can attest to the fact the other brits are right.
This is not a matter of opinion, this is a matter of people who are actually from the bloody country you seem to feel you are so knowledgeable about being right, and you being wrong.
(I thought the fic was sweet, then I realised you'd set it in England. I was sort of willing to let that fact slide, but then I read this comment.
Frankly, dear Author, your arrogance astounds me.)
no subject
Date: 2010-11-28 02:50 pm (UTC)Honestly, the reason why I brought up Turing was because that's one example where I get my perception of the evolution of gay rights in England. I always use him as an example to point out how far England's come in just a few decades - from chemical castration to legal CPs - and kind of poke my fellow Americans for not socially evolving as quickly. I mentioned it in the context of the comment because I was just trying to justify where my perception comes from.
Moreover, since all the Brits in this post keep pointing out how "sweep it under the rug" society was about this sort of thing, I thought maybe the same thing applied to people like Turing. I don't know - I don't live there. But I know that my perception of my own country is certainly skewed by living here, so who knows: I thought maybe this sort of thing might have occurred more often, but Brits just sort of buried it and ignored it.
As I've said, I don't really know, I'm not British. But that's what these sorts of conversations are good for: writing this silly little fic, I've walked away with a much better understanding of British culture where it concerns the gay community. I call that a win, in my books.
Again, I'm sorry to have upset you like this. I'm just having a discussion. I'm ethnically Italian: perhaps blame the way I go about discussing things on that? :P We all have our cultural quirks, after all.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-29 08:35 am (UTC)I don't think that your comments are arrogant at all, but rather that you have done the very best job possible accepting criticism, stating your reasons behind some plot choices and remaining pleasant throughout.
I am not American or English, but Australian and as an unbiased third party I think that all of this has been blown way out of proportion by your critics.
Firstly, this is an AU and as part of an AU things change. I mean you've presented the option of Remus not being a werewolf and of Remus and Sirius being muggles. Why shouldn't you be allowed to present th option of there being gay camps like this in Britain in the seventies? That is simply a part of AU, the license to prevent alternate realities.
I accept that certain cultural differences exist and it can be frustrating to have them overlooked, however any oversight on your part was obviously accidental and none of it was major. I mean if you had written that they went out hunting coyotes or something then I would understand the need to point it out. I guess that the s'mores fit under this category and what it seems like to me is that this has all come about as a result of them (as in this is what brought it all to a head).
I didn't know what s'mores were when I read this either as we don't have them in Australia, but I simply googled them and moved on. If this fic was set in Australia, which has more similarities regarding gay camps or a lack thereof with England than America, I would not have been offended by it and certainly not by the use of s'mores in the story because this is secondary to the wonderful plot and writing. One reader pointed out this simple oversight in cultural differences in a pleasant and slightly amused way which I think is a far better way of bringing attention to misunderstandings.
I'm sorry for the length of this, but I just wanted to let you know that I am REALLY enjoying this story and I check twice a day for an update because I find the idea of Remus and Sirius in a gay camp fascinating. It's different and that's what I like about it; the fact that you have presented an alterior reality where this is can happen in England.
Thanks for the great story and PLEASE update soon :D
no subject
Date: 2011-03-07 04:40 am (UTC)And there were moments of great humor, too. This made me laugh: Well, before most of Remus had time to react. One part of Remus was reacting quite rapidly to the sight before him.
and this: “No, Sirius, come on: the bed's too small. And this is gross. I don't want to sleep on top of your come.”
Remus was fairly certain the next sound out of Sirius' mouth was a snore.
Just a really sexy (and really sweet) chapter.
no subject
Date: 2011-03-07 04:42 am (UTC)